The Amazon discussion is definitely interesting. Over 53% of Amazon sales, from what I can find, now come from 3rd party sellers, so mostly small businesses. Amazon is basically a large distributor who matches customers with businesses who sell products. Even the direct from Amazon products (the other 47%) come from businesses who want to have a larger reach to customers, they just pay more to have Amazon do the fulfillment. So Amazon adds a ton of value to the lives of millions and millions of people who work in these companies, probably tens of thousands of businesses, not to mention all the packaging and distribution jobs created.
For me, its a challenging premise to go around deciding where to buy things simply because the owner is getting rich and I don't like how he or she spends their money. And it is actually their money. So like many things in our culture, the tension is between convenience for me as a consumer and perhaps an ethical decision of who I will buy from. We all have the lines we won't go over, but they are generally different for each person.
I'm never a fan of the generalization on the "corporations don't pay enough taxes" issue. There are a zillion nuances to tax code and and its not as simple as the media makes it sound. Low tax rates are usually offered to businesses because of the incredible value they bring elsewhere. So New York City is a recent example with Amazon. They wanted to put a big center there, I think Queens, but AOC threw a fit and would not agree to the tax breaks, so they took their 25,000 jobs elsewhere. That is a huge number of decent paying, reliable jobs that would have no doubt been a huge boon for that community. Is Amazon the bad guy here? I could give many more examples, but you get the idea.
Thanks for your comments Craig. I wasn't aware that 53% of Amazon products come straight from other businesses. This is something for me to pay more attention to if I do buy via Amazon. I admit, Amazon is an amazing platform and has great benefits. Even the distribution centers, which seem to need some overhaul in terms of workers' welfare, make for a hugely efficient shipping system saving energy in terms of product delivery or pick up.
But I don't agree that I shouldn't be interested in how someone I'm supporting economically spends their money and I'm surprised to hear you say that. So I wonder if maybe I've misunderstood you. I doubt you'd buy from someone who supported an unethical war for instance, so maybe your point is just that your line is different than mine - no doubt. :^)
Also, I know tax laws are complicated, but really? Should a company that has more revenue than 190 countries only pay 1/1000th of their income in tax? I just can't imagine how I could be comfortable with that.
And is Amazon the bad guy? Not just Amazon, I'd say. But all mega-companies and Amazon in particular for the various worker's rights issues, and the obscene wealth of its owner. It may be partially unfair, but I'm always going to be skeptical of any mega-company and prefer to spend my money at smaller businesses. They are can be more traceable, more local, and share wealth better. Human scale society and all that. Now that Amazon, alongside other online shops and department stores, has driven out the smaller shops, I suppose it can be a boon to have Amazon land in a given community.
Haha, sorry, I reread my post and realize I did not make much sense. I was trying to say I know we all have lines we won't go over and they are different for each person. For me personally, I don't actively spend time investigating how business owners use their money, which is probably good because I probably would not find many businesses to support. I have no problem with anyone who chooses not to support a business or go to a restaurant or whatever, that's just not me, unless it is obvious. Maybe I am too ethically lazy, LOL.
I'm not really trying to defend Amazon, I was more trying to say when you punish Amazon you are actually punishing small businesses because they are the producers of the products. There are MANY businesses that have been able to survive COVID-19 because of the online marketplace when brick and morter have been hammered. So while Amazon has thrived during 2020, that's because so many businesses have been able to use their services. Just a thought.
Thanks for taking the time to clarify! And yes. I agree. Amazon has undoubtedly been a lifeline for those small businesses. Phew, glad we got that cleared up. And I'm glad that this conversation with you all online and with the guys here at home has helped me unpick this. So thanks for that, too. Happy Tuesday.
I largely agree with what you’re saying here. I do use Amazon, but I try to limit what I get on there and buy local when possible. I’m not a Prime member.
A couple of things to consider, though. First, to me, there’s Amazon and then there’s Amazon. I think what you say in terms of buying applies to goods you are purchasing directly from Amazon that will be fulfilled from their warehouse. But there’s tons more stuff on Amazon that just that.
Many items you buy may be fulfilled directly from merchants who use the Amazon platform to sell. Yes, Bezos gets a piece of that, but the truth is this is a wonderful way to sell, and is profitable for the small retailers, many of whom also have local brick and mortar stores. So perhaps restricting purchases to these types of vendors might be a way to hedge a bit. You aren’t supporting the poor working conditions in the warehouses or the drivers that get ridden to death, because those goods never touch an Amazon warehouse. And you are supporting small businesses. Seems like a win-win to me.
The other thing I’d say is that while the tax rate on Amazon as a corporation is joke (as it is for most corporations), the income earned by the millions of Amazon workers is taxed. And that is plain and simple good for the economy. Should the tax rates for top earners be different? Absolutely! Should corporate tax rates be restructured to be fairer? Absolutely! But those are different issues, and apply more broadly than to just Amazon.
I think the real thing people should do is exactly as you say… buy less crap! And I agree that just mindlessly going to Amazon has far flung negative consequences that people don’t always consider. But I’d stop short of a full on Amazon ban, focusing more on limiting to items I really can’t get elsewhere, or to vendors that bypass most of the Amazon machine.
Hey BIll. Yeah, I think the main thing is to buy less crap. And I, of course, agree that tax laws should be changed. And that these are issues that go beyond Amazon. And the perks to small business are fantastic. And I hadn't thought about those which bypass the Amazon warehouse... I guess this is something else to consider when making a purchase. How complicated it all gets! I am looking forward to reading your book too! :^)
I'm conflicted about Amazon, too, but I like your nuance... anything you can't get elsewhere, it's OK to go with Amazon. But only if! Thank you xx
The Amazon discussion is definitely interesting. Over 53% of Amazon sales, from what I can find, now come from 3rd party sellers, so mostly small businesses. Amazon is basically a large distributor who matches customers with businesses who sell products. Even the direct from Amazon products (the other 47%) come from businesses who want to have a larger reach to customers, they just pay more to have Amazon do the fulfillment. So Amazon adds a ton of value to the lives of millions and millions of people who work in these companies, probably tens of thousands of businesses, not to mention all the packaging and distribution jobs created.
For me, its a challenging premise to go around deciding where to buy things simply because the owner is getting rich and I don't like how he or she spends their money. And it is actually their money. So like many things in our culture, the tension is between convenience for me as a consumer and perhaps an ethical decision of who I will buy from. We all have the lines we won't go over, but they are generally different for each person.
I'm never a fan of the generalization on the "corporations don't pay enough taxes" issue. There are a zillion nuances to tax code and and its not as simple as the media makes it sound. Low tax rates are usually offered to businesses because of the incredible value they bring elsewhere. So New York City is a recent example with Amazon. They wanted to put a big center there, I think Queens, but AOC threw a fit and would not agree to the tax breaks, so they took their 25,000 jobs elsewhere. That is a huge number of decent paying, reliable jobs that would have no doubt been a huge boon for that community. Is Amazon the bad guy here? I could give many more examples, but you get the idea.
Thanks for your comments Craig. I wasn't aware that 53% of Amazon products come straight from other businesses. This is something for me to pay more attention to if I do buy via Amazon. I admit, Amazon is an amazing platform and has great benefits. Even the distribution centers, which seem to need some overhaul in terms of workers' welfare, make for a hugely efficient shipping system saving energy in terms of product delivery or pick up.
But I don't agree that I shouldn't be interested in how someone I'm supporting economically spends their money and I'm surprised to hear you say that. So I wonder if maybe I've misunderstood you. I doubt you'd buy from someone who supported an unethical war for instance, so maybe your point is just that your line is different than mine - no doubt. :^)
Also, I know tax laws are complicated, but really? Should a company that has more revenue than 190 countries only pay 1/1000th of their income in tax? I just can't imagine how I could be comfortable with that.
And is Amazon the bad guy? Not just Amazon, I'd say. But all mega-companies and Amazon in particular for the various worker's rights issues, and the obscene wealth of its owner. It may be partially unfair, but I'm always going to be skeptical of any mega-company and prefer to spend my money at smaller businesses. They are can be more traceable, more local, and share wealth better. Human scale society and all that. Now that Amazon, alongside other online shops and department stores, has driven out the smaller shops, I suppose it can be a boon to have Amazon land in a given community.
Haha, sorry, I reread my post and realize I did not make much sense. I was trying to say I know we all have lines we won't go over and they are different for each person. For me personally, I don't actively spend time investigating how business owners use their money, which is probably good because I probably would not find many businesses to support. I have no problem with anyone who chooses not to support a business or go to a restaurant or whatever, that's just not me, unless it is obvious. Maybe I am too ethically lazy, LOL.
I'm not really trying to defend Amazon, I was more trying to say when you punish Amazon you are actually punishing small businesses because they are the producers of the products. There are MANY businesses that have been able to survive COVID-19 because of the online marketplace when brick and morter have been hammered. So while Amazon has thrived during 2020, that's because so many businesses have been able to use their services. Just a thought.
Thanks for taking the time to clarify! And yes. I agree. Amazon has undoubtedly been a lifeline for those small businesses. Phew, glad we got that cleared up. And I'm glad that this conversation with you all online and with the guys here at home has helped me unpick this. So thanks for that, too. Happy Tuesday.
I largely agree with what you’re saying here. I do use Amazon, but I try to limit what I get on there and buy local when possible. I’m not a Prime member.
A couple of things to consider, though. First, to me, there’s Amazon and then there’s Amazon. I think what you say in terms of buying applies to goods you are purchasing directly from Amazon that will be fulfilled from their warehouse. But there’s tons more stuff on Amazon that just that.
Many items you buy may be fulfilled directly from merchants who use the Amazon platform to sell. Yes, Bezos gets a piece of that, but the truth is this is a wonderful way to sell, and is profitable for the small retailers, many of whom also have local brick and mortar stores. So perhaps restricting purchases to these types of vendors might be a way to hedge a bit. You aren’t supporting the poor working conditions in the warehouses or the drivers that get ridden to death, because those goods never touch an Amazon warehouse. And you are supporting small businesses. Seems like a win-win to me.
The other thing I’d say is that while the tax rate on Amazon as a corporation is joke (as it is for most corporations), the income earned by the millions of Amazon workers is taxed. And that is plain and simple good for the economy. Should the tax rates for top earners be different? Absolutely! Should corporate tax rates be restructured to be fairer? Absolutely! But those are different issues, and apply more broadly than to just Amazon.
I think the real thing people should do is exactly as you say… buy less crap! And I agree that just mindlessly going to Amazon has far flung negative consequences that people don’t always consider. But I’d stop short of a full on Amazon ban, focusing more on limiting to items I really can’t get elsewhere, or to vendors that bypass most of the Amazon machine.
Plus, I really want to buy your book! :-)
Just my .02 cents!
Hey BIll. Yeah, I think the main thing is to buy less crap. And I, of course, agree that tax laws should be changed. And that these are issues that go beyond Amazon. And the perks to small business are fantastic. And I hadn't thought about those which bypass the Amazon warehouse... I guess this is something else to consider when making a purchase. How complicated it all gets! I am looking forward to reading your book too! :^)